tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414482498098790205.post1756471548715766163..comments2023-05-18T03:46:07.779-06:00Comments on Questioning Software: How Doctors ThinkBen Simohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11448600123169359955noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414482498098790205.post-10266195246557300622007-04-30T00:13:00.000-06:002007-04-30T00:13:00.000-06:00Hi Ben,I am glad that there is another perfectioni...Hi Ben,<BR/><BR/>I am glad that there is another perfectionist at heart. :-)<BR/><BR/><I>"There was a time that I just pointed to the requirements and demanded that developers fix the bugs."</I><BR/>Yes, I made the same mistakes. Unfortunately - when I started testing (officially) I had then nobody telling me this. But with time I learned my lessons.<BR/>Well, the good thing with mistakes it: they are invaluable and thank God we also make them, so we get the chance to learn from it - hopefully.<BR/><BR/>Erkan YILMAZAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414482498098790205.post-91349959796894730552007-04-29T17:11:00.000-06:002007-04-29T17:11:00.000-06:00Hi Erkan,Dr. Jerome Groopman correctly said: "We a...Hi Erkan,<BR/><BR/><I>Dr. Jerome Groopman correctly said: "We are fallible" ... there should be no arrogance. </I><BR/><BR/>You have hit on an important point. If we testers aren't careful, we can easily come across as arrogant to others on our project teams. We software testers need to team with the rest of the project, not lord over them as quality cops. We are all in it together. We need to let developers see our mistakes too. Otherwise, we come across as arrogant perfectionists. (I will admit to being a perfectionist at heart.) I've made as many mistakes as a tester as the worst requirements and code writers I've encountered. <BR/><BR/><I>actually being able to communicate is also very important for testers. Because, after finding bugs what next? </I><BR/><BR/>Communication is very important. Not only do we need to report bugs, but we need to communicate their potential impact. There was a time that I just pointed to the requirements and demanded that developers fix the bugs. Then I encountered a product manager that would say something like "Revenue is king. Liability is queen. Tell me how they are impacted by this bug." He taught me that it is necessary to communication the impact of bugs in terms that those impacted understand.<BR/><BR/>BenBen Simohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11448600123169359955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414482498098790205.post-17341820522286513682007-04-29T15:24:00.000-06:002007-04-29T15:24:00.000-06:00Hello Ben,I will put this book on my buy list. I h...Hello Ben,<BR/><BR/>I will put this book on my buy list. I have listened to the interview only and what I liked from it was, that Dr. Jerome Groopman correctly said: "We are fallible" (I mean he talks at the beginning of having caused a death: position 3:40) - there should be no arrogance. Arrogance will probably happen at least once to everybody of us (no matter if one is tester or doctor). Let`s hope this does not cost too much then. <BR/><BR/><BR/>About the quote of Linda Lewis (position 21:00):<BR/><I>"You know, medicine is not that complicated: a doctor should be able to explain in clear language to every patient what is wrong and it should make sense. It's not quantum physics."</I><BR/><BR/>If you set this in relation to testing - actually being able to communicate is also very important for testers. Because, after finding bugs what next? Are they communicated good - if not, they would then be not known or fixed fast enough. <BR/>Hopefully we testers do this in the best way. Here are links, how to write good bug reports and to convince the reader of the bug report to fix them:<BR/>Cem Kaner, Effective bug reporting (<A HREF="http://www.kaner.com/pdfs/BugAdvocacy.pdf" REL="nofollow">slides</A>, <A HREF="http://www.testingeducation.org/k04/video/BugAdvocacy.wmv" REL="nofollow">video</A>)<BR/><BR/>Until I get my copy, waiting for some stories from you.<BR/><BR/>Good night,<BR/>Erkan YILMAZ<BR/><A HREF="http://skilledtests.com/blog/2007/03/04/skills-of-doctors-testers/" REL="nofollow">http://Iaskquestions.com</A>Erkan Yilmazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06308636473679336189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-414482498098790205.post-33207001412605070812007-04-28T20:49:00.000-06:002007-04-28T20:49:00.000-06:00I just got the book today. I've only read the int...I just got the book today. I've only read the introduction so far. The introduction explains why Dr. Groopman did the research that led to the book.<BR/><BR/>He describes watching medical students and new doctors follow written process and decision trees instead of looking closely at patients' problems and really thinking about those problems. Instead of applying critical thinking, he says that the new generation of doctors are trained to process pre-written diagnosis scripts like computers.<BR/><BR/>Sounds a lot like factory school software testing to me. I am looking forward to the rest of the book.<BR/><BR/>Ben Simo<BR/>http://QualityFrog.comBen Simohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11448600123169359955noreply@blogger.com